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Forums: Index > Where Nothing Gathers Archives > April - June 2016 Tea Party



FinalRest Teresa TBS
FinalRest - All right then, I'll put you out of your misery.
TALK - Even if it's a rule...whether or not I follow it is up to me – , January 1, 2016 (UTC)
Welcome to this month's Tea Party, the Keyhole's quarterly roundtable meeting!

Due to the fussy nature of the staff's conflicting schedules, we have had difficulty maintaining a regular meeting time for the IRC. To remedy that, we have decided to open a forum each month for all users to offer up any suggestions or concerns that they might want to address. On this forum, you are able to bring any and all topics to the attention of the staff, as well as add your input to any of the other topics on this page. Before posting, please take careful note of the posting instructions below. Also keep in mind that this Tea Party is for issues regarding the operation of the Keyhole only; any casual, fan related topics should be brought to the Seat of War. Topics that require a large amount of discussion are free to be discussed in their own forum in Where Nothing Gathers.

The topics discussed in past Tea Parties can be viewed to the right. Before raising a new topic, please search through past Tea Parties to ensure it hasn't been discussed before.

Finally, pastries can be found near the end of the table, beverages are available to my left.


Forum Archiving (Continued)

FinalRest Card Soldier TBS
FinalRest - Is a guinea pig bad? Do you consider a guinea pig the representation of all that is evil?
TALK - Maybe... if it's an evil guinea pig. – 16:12, August 27, 2015 (UTC)
When a forum closes, it is archived and moved to the keyblade forum graveyard, Betwixt and Between. Why? Seriously, why?

I remember when the wiki started archiving all the old old topics, but the only reasoning I remember for that was to cleanse out the fossil forums to make the new forums easier to find, and let dead ones actually rest. So why are all the new forums swept away as soon as they are done? Why do we have separate forum sections if, in the end, all topics are just going to be thrown into one hard-to-sift-through page?

Please note, I'm not asking this as a "we should stop doing this" type of deal, I just don't understand the meaning of it and would like it to be explained to me please, so I know why to do it in the future. ^^


Topics should only go in there if they are over a year old, and/or they have no effect on the present or foreseeable future. KHWiki organizes their archived forums by what forums they were in previously if we want to do that. Get it memorized 06:47, October 7, 2015 (UTC)

Is there like a cut off date for when forums are archived? Cause we archive most of our kh discussions, even though anyone could come in and add to those if they wanted. An organised archive system might be nice, but aren't we too far into our archiving to change that (who wants to relabel all the already archived forums?)? Fade Away... 11:24, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

I would say that we are too far into archiving to create an organised system, unless we wanted to just start being organised from this point onwards... However, a one-year cut-off for the archiving a forum sounds good to me. AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 22:52, November 25, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I like the idea of a year cut off. For starting an organised system... I think it is an option to just start it from this point on, but I'm not sure if we want some un-organised, and some not. But the "shoving them in one area" thing is also confusing to me. I dunno, leave it or change from this point on? What do you guys think? FR Rose Left This concludes my wonderful story! FR Rose Right 11:51, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

Would we have an "unorganized" section for those that have already been put in the Betwixt and Between? It might be nice to start organizing them, but it would bug the heck out of me that we'd have unorganized stuff too. Indifferent Chain is unhelpful. Get it memorized 05:41, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

An organised section would be nice. Whilst it would be irritating to have an unorganised mass of forums too, at least we'd have something organised to start with. If it helped, we could even also start an entirely new forum for archived discussions... That might be a bit of a far cry though... AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 16:28, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Here's the thing. If we want to organize them, we'd need the personnel. Which I know we don't have. So, I say we just hold off on the archiving until we have time to organize them all. There's no real worry about them staying in their categories, so we'll just leave them. If we get more people, then we'll consider it, but since we're all flooded with big projects, I say we drop this. Get it memorized 06:39, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

If you don't feel that we could accomplish this task, Chain, then I'll agree to putting it on the back burner for now. AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 11:05, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I don't think we should make it a priority project, but I was thinking should we sort any that are archived past this point. Or do we just keep shoving them in that one place until we decide to sort them all at once? FR Rose Left This concludes my wonderful story! FR Rose Right 07:42, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

In the event we do have the userpower to accomplish this, it would probably be best we start archiving by category. It would make it easier on the future users. Get it memorized 07:00, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Is this topic closed then until we have the userpower to carry out the necessary task? AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 14:18, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Well if we want to archive from this point on, should we create sub categories for the archives? Old forums get archived, but in either "The Beach Archive", "Where Nothing Gathers Archive" etc. If I created those categories for future use, would they work? Fade Away... 07:33, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

I think that would be a good way to go about it. Good thinking, FR! AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 22:33, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

They should work yes. Get it memorized 06:02, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

VERDICT

From here on out, all forums will be put into their own archive according to forum section. The previous forums will remain in the "Betwixt and Between" forum until further notice as we don't have the userpower to carry out such a task. Get it memorized 17:49, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

New forum archives have been made. To archive a forum in future, replace the banner at the top of the page with [[Category:FORUM CATEGORY Archives]]. FR Cheshire Cat Left FINALREST FR Dinah Right 11:01, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Copyright... I think. (Continued)

Axel- Normal 2 Sprite KHD
Chainoffire - "Hey, wait... I'm enjoying this. You guys are something else!"
TALK - bondofflame_zps70046658.png Get it memorized 02:15, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
Eternal Flames KHD So I think we should go over this I'm not sure what it is, but I think we should go over it. Maybe make a policy or five? Eternal Flames KHD

Honestly I'm really clueless as to those templates. Was actually observing them pop in the RC but we didn't have any notice from the user stating what they're for or how are we expected to implement them. Personally I'd say we should wait for a confirmation from Crash about their purpose and proceed accordingly. UnversedlogoKeaard, Imperial Dragon GuardUnversedlogo 04:03, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

It'd definitely be good to get a word from Crash. The templates there seem to be utility templates for copyright of files, to do with licensing. Call Me Aixehh 10:55, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Crash has yet to respond to Chain's message on his talk page. Do we need to explore this issue further, or can we ignore the template influx? Call Me Aixehh 10:34, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Something that just stood out to me about Chain's topic bubble is "Maybe make a policy or five?". What is our stance on needless template creation? For images, if they "mess up" our wiki, they are deleted mercilessly. But you can go crazy and make as many userpages filled with crap as you want. What is our opinion on templates? Are they considered part of the tidy section of our wiki (alongside articles, galleries, help pages etc) or the messy part (with the userpages and forums)? Once we have that answer, we know what to do with those templates and how to handle situations like this later on. FR Cheshire Cat Left FINALREST FR Dinah Right 11:56, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I'd say that templates vary. If they are templates designed for use in the mainspace, such as Template:InfoboxOrg13, Template:Gallery Header or Template:XChi for example, then I would say that they're part of the "tidy" section of the wiki. If the templates are more along the lines of Template:AixonNaviBar or Template:FinalRest, then they're definitely part of the "messy" section. That said, I don't know where the templates that were uploaded by Crash would fall in the grand scheme of things. I'd personally lean more towards the "tidy" side, as they are used for site purposes, as opposed to user purposes... Call Me Aixehh 13:42, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Well we do have this list of unused templates, so they show up there, which needless templates will most likely go on. User templates should stay in the userspace, and mainspace templates should stay in the mainspace. Since nothing's been done to the templates and no contact has been attempted, I say we delete them since they're kinda floating in nothingness at the moment. If he attempts to make contact and we decide that those templates are needed, then we can always bring them back. Get it memorized 06:23, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

So NOTHING happened. Do we get rid of the changes or keep them? Get it memorized 08:26, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

We may as well delete them all if they haven't been put in place for anything in particular or used at all. Call Me Aixehh 10:47, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Yep, mark them for deletion. If we get no push back, they'll be gone in two weeks. FR Bubbie Left I'm Cap'n of you, Whale! FR Bubbie Right 07:43, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

I've marked them all. If we stick to the two-week thing, then 5th July will be the day for deletion. Call Me Aixehh 14:01, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

VERDICT

The templates have been marked for deletion. In future, templates of a user made nature should be kept in the user space. FR Cheshire Cat Left FINALREST FR Dinah Right 04:44, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Inappropriate Blog Content

Aixy Roku Happy 2
Aixon Come on! "I made her a promise that the three of us could have ice cream here when you got back."

You earned...the icing on the cake!AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 22:23, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Oathkeeper KHD User blog:Jhmarioman/Minigame

Please take a look at the above link. We need to discuss whether content such as this is appropriate for display on the wiki. I personally think not. However, I am unable to edit a blog created by another user, so I cannot deal with the issue. Oathkeeper KHD

Not only the wiki but on general public sites... If it was just a random blog about fan made commands go ahead but the contents this one has? I'm all in for removing it if possible. Was browsing around wikia see if I found any sort of global policy on those contents but found nothing so I guess it's up to each wiki to deal with them individually.

EDIT: Never mind I just found this on the ToS: "you also agree not to use the Service to: Post or transmit any content that is obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive, profane, or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party".UnversedlogoKeaard, Imperial Dragon GuardUnversedlogo 22:32, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I say delete. It clearly violates ToS. Get it memorized 06:18, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

It looks like we have a consensus! Seeing as I can't delete the page myself, would you do the honours, Chain? AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 10:15, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

VERDICT

The blog in question has been deleted. All user-created blogs which violate the Terms of Service will be promptly deleted. If any ambiguity arises, creating a forum/Tea Party section is the appropriate course of action. AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 21:37, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

Unchained X Slider on Main Page!

AixonLarxeneSprite3
Aixon Lightning! Déluge KHD — "All right... Have it your way. I know it'll kill you to hear this, but I think I can live with that..." Déluge KHD

Fake in every possible way...AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 12:48, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

Vague KHD The time has come...for us to have an Unchained X slider put on the main page in the "What's New" section.

The question is, do we replace Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance or Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX? Vague KHD

I'd say remove Dream Drop Distance. It makes more sense to remove the oldest game rather than a sort of new "remake" of older games. UnversedlogoKeaard, Imperial Dragon GuardUnversedlogo 23:07, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should replace KH3D with the KHux, and then we'll make the 2.5 one into the old forum one. Get it memorized 06:33, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

I'm happy with that way of doing it. The next question is, what image do we use for the slider, and what text goes on it? AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 21:38, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with replacing 3D. For images, one of the official promo images would work. Fade Away... 00:47, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

Cool, cool. The only other thing I'd like to say is that maybe we could avoid using the image that Chain plans on using for the Welcome template. Just a thought, though if that can't be avoided, then it's no big issue... AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 10:31, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Form memory, two images come to my mind. There's the one with them all looking at the kingdom hearts moon, and the one I think that was used with the NA release, which was a bunch of avatars jumping or something? Does that image exist or am I imagining something? I've had a look round, but I can't find it... maybe I'm crazy. Anyway, a quick image search gives me this and this. One for main page, one for welcome template? FR Spade FR Diamond FINALREST FR Club FR Heart 11:59, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Those images look good to me, as long as they are converted to .png format, then I'm all for them being used. AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 13:43, April 23, 2016 (UTC)
I think the latter was used more for KHx, and the former for KHUx, but I like the latter for a slider image better. I say use the latter image. Get it memorized 06:05, May 17, 2016 (UTC)
So I changed them, but "Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ" won't fit, and thus won't appear. Should I have it as "Kingdom Hearts UCχ" or "Kingdom Hearts Unchained"? Get it memorized 08:25, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
UCχ would be better as far as I am concerned. Having just Unchained is inaccurate, whereas making the name into an acronym which is used throughout the wiki looks decent! AixonOathkeeper Aixon AixonInvertedOathkeeper 10:01, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
VERDICT

The slider image on the main page has been changed, and the "UCx" acronym will be used. Get it memorized 17:52, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

DDD -> KHx

Axel- Normal 2 Sprite KHD
Chainoffire - "Hey, wait... I'm enjoying this. You guys are something else!"
TALK - bondofflame_zps70046658.png Get it memorized 07:03, April 13, 2016 (UTC)
Eternal Flames KHD Since we're already doing the slider on the main page, I thought I'd revamp the welcome template as well. How does this look? On that note, is there anything else KH3D themed that we should be converting? Eternal Flames KHD

I really like how it looks Chain! Great job on that. As for other things needing conversion, I've gone through the main page as well as the links new users would most likely visit first and found nothing so I guess we're good with this so far. I'll inform you if I find something else though. UnversedlogoKeaard, Imperial Dragon GuardUnversedlogo 21:29, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

I like the look of that new welcome template, Chain. The only comment I'd make is to ask if it's possible to have the image slightly larger so that it fills the entirety of the left space? If not, then no worries. I can't see anything blindingly obvious which needs to be changed from being KH3D-themed to KHUX themed. (On a separate note, I did create a forum for the new Unchained X navibar, which I have to receive a response to.) Edit conflict... -.- AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 21:34, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

Would anyone be opposed to unbolding the quote at the top of the box? I've always thought that text looks too chunky with the darker background. Also, is it possible to stretch the green background around the quote so that it reaches the edge of the box (where the pic edge and the info box's edge are)? Oh, and should we add a link to the projects page in the box? Any other info we need to add/remove? Other than that, it looks great! FR Abed I'm a peanut bar and I'm here to say... FR Troy 01:05, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

I think all your ideas are good, FR. I'm happy for those changes to be made. Additionally, and I only just realised this, it'd be good to have a different quote to the one already in place. AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 09:57, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

I made all of the changes suggested. I used the KHUx tagline, since I thought it was appropriate. Any more changes? Get it memorized 06:13, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

I made the change. Anything else needed? Get it memorized 08:10, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
That looks good to me, Chain! Nicely done. :) AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 09:53, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
VERDICT

The welcome template has been updated to the KHx theme. Get it memorized 18:25, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

World Template - Clarity

AixonLarxeneSprite2
Aixon Vanish! Déluge KHD "But keep it under your hood... At least until the time is right." Déluge KHD

You had your fun on the first floor...AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 16:31, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Vague KHD I was taking a look around some world articles (as you do) today, and I spied a little anomaly that doesn't make sense to me. I thought I'd bring it up here to discuss, and simultaneously present an idea. Template:World has two parameters that are very similar:
|assist= and |ally=

These show up in the infobox itself as "Allies" and "Assistants". Now, what I would like to understand is what the difference between these two parameters is, as there seem to be differences between articles. I thought perhaps that one of the parameters signified party members, such as shown in the Enchanted Dominion article for Prince Philip. However, looking at the Datascape, the differences between allies and assistants seems to be less clear... I looked at the Party template, but that didn't explain anything to me. If someone could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.

Secondly, back to the World template. I thought it'd be useful (once we've clarified the difference between allies and assistants) to have a setup similar to Template:InfoboxOrg13, albeit also with a brief explanation of what each parameter is for (not everyone who ever applies that template to an article will see this forum page). I'd be happy to write it up and place it on the template. Let me know! Vague KHD</font>

I was thinking that maybe the difference was in the menus. If a character is added to the party menu and you can sort their stock, equip them, etc, they are allies. An assistant is someone who, for a brief period of story time, assists the character in a mission. So Phillip is not a party member, but on the mission on the bridge, he assists you. But that clashes against what's been used in the boxes so far. I don't know the Datascape, so I can't really compare the two. Are there other examples of Ally/Assistant use for worlds from anything pre Coded?

And anything that makes the wiki easier to understand gets a go ahead from me! If you could, a bit more info about use like on Warning2 might be helpful as well. Fade Away... 16:40, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Hollow Bastion seems to go with your thoughts, FR, but also contradicts what the Enchanted Dominion article says... There's Atlantica too. I feel it'd be good if we could clarify what we want the difference to be, so that we can go ahead and make the changes. I'll alter what the world template says once we've come to a decision and make it as explanatory as I can. :) AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 13:12, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

I like how FR broke down the concepts of ally and assist so I'd be all in for making use of those on current and future world templates. However, I'm not too sure how well would that apply to future games. If they all end up being like BBS where there's no real "party" screen, essentially everyone would end up being considered an assistant and we'd barely have a use for the ally tab outside of previous games. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, I finished with Ven and I'm too behind with Aqua to check)

As for Prince Phillip, I checked the KHWiki and they have him listed as an ally too so it doesn't clear up the reasoning behind that. From what I could gather I guess he's being considered an ally due to enabling the command "Selfless Prince" but it's still not very clear to me. Thoughts? UnversedlogoKeaard, Imperial Dragon GuardUnversedlogo 14:54, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Is it possible that for BBS the allies are people that got a health bar alongside the player? I haven't played it in a while, but if Phillip had a health bar, maybe that's what constitutes an ally, not the menu thing. So an ally is someone that has a health bar? Are there anymore examples from BBS? FR Spade FR Diamond FINALREST FR Club FR Heart 04:48, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Going by FR's definitions, a KHII example would be someone like Simba, who's stats can be seen. But then someone like Hercules in the underdrome fight against Hades, where you can't even see his HP, would be an assist. For BBS, someone like Prince Phillip could be considered an ally due to him having an HP bar, while the three faries could be an assist (playing as Ven, against Maleficent) because you can use a reaction command with them, but they have no visible stats. In KH1, having Riku fight against the Parasite Cage (if the story order allowed for it) would be an assist because you have no interaction/visible stats for Riku, but someone like Aladdin is an ally (for obvious reasons). In KH3D, the only time there's any help aside from dream eaters is with Riku against Ursula, who doesn't have any visible stats, so he'd be considered an assist. With all this in mind, I say that anyone with a visible HP bar can be considered an ally, anyone without one, is an assist. Good work FR! Get it memorized 06:58, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

VERDICT

Aixon will alter Template:World's visible description to provide a guide for users on what each parameter is for. This will be done after the style of the Warning2 template. It has been clarified that an Ally is a character in-game that has a health bar beside that of the playing protagonist. An assistant is a character who aids the protagonist, but does not have a health bar shown. All world articles will be checked to ensure that this is displayed correctly. AixonDreamWaveAquatic Dreamer - AiXon 14:35, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Categorizing Images

FinalRest Jelly Kid TBS
FinalRest - Throw a blanket over it!
TALK - Jelly Kid! Noooooo! -- 16:30, June 17, 2016 (UTC)
FR Rose Left So in our images, we have a category for all character images (one category per game) and we also have similiar heartless/nobody/unversed categories. My question is, if a character can be classified as both a "character" and an enemy type, should it be put in both categories, or just one? For example, there's this Ansem image. Should he be in 3D characters, 3D heartless, or both? Another example is any image involving an org member. Should they be in both character and nobody? FR Rose Right


It really depends on the image to be honest. For that particular one, I would go for Category:Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance bosses and potentially the Heartless and Character categories too. For Organization members, again I'd say it depends what the image is. If it's say File:Roxas KHHD1.png, then Character is definitely appropriate, and maybe Nobody too? For File:Marluxia Second Form.png on the other hand, then I'd say that Bosses, Nobody and Character would fit well. Is it worth making a policy for this? I Am THE BEST (내가 제일 잘 나가) 13:29, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Well, we also have a Somebody images category, and then ones like 3D enemy images. I guess the question is, should images be marked with the one category that best defines it, or EVERY category that it fits into? For example, should that Ansem image be just a "3D Character" or "3D character, 3D Heartless, and 3D enemy"? I like the first option for simplicity's sake (and because that's what I've been using so far), but maybe the latter is better because that's the category rule we use for our articles. FR Abed I'm a peanut bar and I'm here to say... FR Troy 02:33, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

If we're going to choose one of those two options, I would personally go for the second one. It makes more sense to me for a file to be placed into all the categories it best represents, rather than picking just the one. I Am THE BEST (내가 제일 잘 나가) 07:27, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the second option as well. Having to pick a single category can be easy on certain images but there's probably a ton more that wont be able to fit in only one at all so giving them all applicable categories makes everything go smoother. UnversedlogoKeaard, Imperial Dragon GuardUnversedlogo 14:08, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, that sounds good! Thanks guys! FR Rose Left This concludes my wonderful story! FR Rose Right 04:51, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, reopening this for a quick check. If we start putting the images in all categories, it means that images like this will be put in both the "KHDays Artwork" categories and "KHDays Nobody Artwork" categories. Images like this will be put in "KHcoded Artwork", "KHDays Artwork", "KHBbS Artwork", and "KHDays Nobody Artwork". Does this sound right? I was about to get stuck into sorting, but I was wondering if that was a bit excessive. Just wanna make sure I'm on the right track before sorting them all. FR Abed I'm a peanut bar and I'm here to say... FR Troy 13:13, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

I personally don't feel that it's excessive. This way, if one searches up a category to find images related to something, then there will be more a chance that they will find relevant images. I Am THE BEST (내가 제일 잘 나가) 22:31, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Oh my word, that's a kpop sig! Alright, all good! Thank you! FR Cheshire Cat Left FINALREST FR Dinah Right 13:36, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

VERDICT

Images should be placed in ALL appropriate categories. FR Bubbie Left I'm Cap'n of you, Whale! FR Bubbie Right 04:51, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

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